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Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

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vincent
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Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by vincent » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:09 pm

Evening All

Has anyone on here compared the new ‘low output’ Lyra Kleos SL and Linn Kandid?

The Kleos SL is more expensive than the standard Kleos (£2895 against £1995). With the Kandid now £3210, I'm wondering whether the Kleos SL might be a worthwhile step up, comparable to the Kandid, or whether the Kandid (generally regarded as better than the standard Kleos) still has the edge.

The Kleos SL has an output voltage of 0.25mV@5ccm/sec, against 0.5mV for the the standard model.The Kandid output voltage is expressed as 0.4mV@3.45cm/sec. Am I correct in thinking that this means that the Kandid is lower voltage than the Kleos, but not as low as the Kleos SL? (It's confusing because the Linn and Lyra specs are based on different standards). :smt017

The standard Lyra Etna is now £5495 against £6895 for the Etna SL :smt013

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Red Chris
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Red Chris » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:31 pm

Vincent - what is the cost of an Etna with a Kleos trade in? I've not heard the Etna - in case I like it too much to resist :wink:
Currently Cymbiosis LP12 Woodsong Wenge, Klimax Radikal/Chord Sarum T, Keel/A, Khan, Tranquility, Urika/Chord SSA, Aro, sKale, Krystal - Sondek owner since 1982 - the rest is Naim, Chord and Kudos 8)

vincent
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by vincent » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:58 am

Red Chris wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:31 pm
Vincent - what is the cost of an Etna with a Kleos trade in? I've not heard the Etna - in case I like it too much to resist :wink:


Hi Chris

Last time I enquired the Kleos was worth £1500 against an Etna at £4995, but it looks like the Etna has had a whopping £500 price hike.

So that means £800 more for the Etna than a Kandid for someone in my position (the difference for you would be even greater if/when you were to trade in Krystal against Kandid).

Like you I really don't want to hear the Etna in case it's just too good to resist :smt018 . So I'm thinking that the next step for me might be the Kandid - assuming that I like it in my system - and keep the Kleos for the last ever cartridge upgrade :roll:

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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Wenge1 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:34 am

.
For me, a bigger issue when changing a cart for a higher caliber/more expensive model is not so much the initial price hike that one has to factor in; but also the fact that your running costs have also now taken a hike. Carts wear out and have to be replaced. It would be difficult having gone up to a Kandid, Etna, Titan etc. and then being unable to replace it when the time came with the same/similar and having to drop back down again.

In other words, once having attained a certain level of cart you really need to be able to fund that of level of replacement forever more .......... :smt020
.
.
Harban 'Wenge' Cymbiosis Signature LP12, Klimax Radikal / Urika, Karmen, Tranquility, Rubikon, Ekos SE, Skale, Krystal. Sarum Super Array IC's. Chord Signature speaker cable

dCS Puccini CD Player

KK/1(D), Klimax Twin (D), ProAc Response D2's
.

vincent
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by vincent » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:25 am

Wenge1 wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:34 am
.
Carts wear out ... . It would be difficult having gone up to a Kandid, Etna, Titan etc. and then being unable to replace it when the time came with the same/similar and having to drop back down again. :smt020
.


So do people :smt030 The trick is to wear out at just the same time as your last and best ever cartridge :lol:

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evil_C
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by evil_C » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:14 pm

vincent wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:25 am
Wenge1 wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:34 am
.
Carts wear out ... . It would be difficult having gone up to a Kandid, Etna, Titan etc. and then being unable to replace it when the time came with the same/similar and having to drop back down again. :smt020
.


So do people :smt030 The trick is to wear out at just the same time as your last and best ever cartridge :lol:

But don't forget people's ears usually wear out before most other parts. So bearing that in mind you may as well go for the best cartridge now because when it needs to be replaced your ears won't be able to hear the downgrade. There's logic there somewhere!

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Red Chris
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Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Red Chris » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:44 pm

vincent wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:58 am
So that means £800 more for the Etna than a Kandid for someone in my position (the difference for you would be even greater if/when you were to trade in Krystal against Kandid).
True - but I still have a Kleos in pretty good condition, as I traded in a Troika when I got the Krystal 8)

I have no plans to change my cartridge for at least a year - barring accident :smt030
Currently Cymbiosis LP12 Woodsong Wenge, Klimax Radikal/Chord Sarum T, Keel/A, Khan, Tranquility, Urika/Chord SSA, Aro, sKale, Krystal - Sondek owner since 1982 - the rest is Naim, Chord and Kudos 8)

vincent
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by vincent » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:20 am

I'm still wondering about this. :smt017

I know that the Kleos SL is the best v.f.m. option for someone with an old Kleos to trade in.

Price and v.f.m. aside, however, how do the carts compare? In particular via Urika II?

I'm guessing a trip to Cymbiosis may be the only way to find out. :smt037

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Coyote Jim
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Coyote Jim » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:02 pm

Hi Vincent.
In a sort of relevant reply I too was at the same decision making process.
I have a Urika 1 here.
Having been rather unlucky twice with Krystal reliability problems I was indeed looking at alternative manufacturers cartridges to replace the Krystal.
Lyra or Dynavector being the obvious two horse race do I go for Lyra Delos being the same sort of expense as Krystal or knowing that Lyra make the Linn Kandid and looking at pricing also the Kleos seemed the most likely candidate.
All of these options were made available to me by Cymbiosis as Peter travels up here to take care of the system needs for me.
I'm a bit obsessive about thinking into things so I thought having an Ekos SE/1 either maker would be easily accommodated but also being aware of the minimal connectivity advantages of some.
I had used a Troika for a good number of years and liked taking advantage of the three point mount option hence the moving to Krystal but now the problem of another manufacturer and two connections with the tag wires and no three point mount the Kleos was coming out on top due to being made with the same material as the Ekos headshell but now having moved to an upgrade instead of a change I started thinking about the Kandid fly leads and three point mount and also the synergy of the chain so the Kandid was the final choice.
Musicality and dynamics are off the scale in comparison and no indication of the cartridge having a character of its own added to the sound it's very neutral and detailed.
It was definitely for us the right decision lower mass cartridge and higher output too.
Hope this helps. 8) :smt023
"Cymbiosis"
LP12,Cirkus,K-Radikal,Urika,Keel,Linn mat,Ekos SE/1,Kandid,Majik I Dynamik,Majik CD,
Kudos X3,Quadraspire Q4 EVO, Linn Silvers & K200 Black with Linn Knekt Bananas. 8) :smt023

vincent
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by vincent » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:14 am

Thanks Jim, this is indeed very helpful. I too am attracted by the theoretical advantages of the Kandid's three point mount, flying wire terminations, and lower mass (5.5g against 8.8g for the Kleos), not to mention overall synergy with the Ekos SE.

My main question is whether the Kandid will out-perform the Kleos SL in my Exakt Akubarik system with Urika II. If this is the case, the next question is whether it's worth the significant additional expense :smt017

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