Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

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Red Chris
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Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by Red Chris » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:05 am

Steve - I already had an Akurate Radikal my new one is a Klimax - in black
Currently Cymbiosis LP12 Woodsong Wenge, Klimax Radikal/Chord Sarum T, Keel/A, Khan, Tranquility, Urika/Chord SSA, Aro, sKale, Lyra Kleos SL - Sondek owner since 1982 - the rest is Naim, Chord and Kudos 8)

The Flatearther
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Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by The Flatearther » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:14 am

Very nice. Hope it brings you much pleasure.
.

Jazz Club

Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by Jazz Club » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:16 am

Chris,
I thought you might have gone Klimax as i know you have been talking yourself into getting one for a long while. 8)
What power cable are you using with it now your Powerline won't fit?

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Mr Fixit
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Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by Mr Fixit » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:20 pm

A really great write-up Chris, thank you. You really captured just how the demonstration went.

It's a hierarchy thing as we have been told over the years, but here was an occasion where I really could make a very positive difference to the sonic outcome for a relatively similar price, given Linn's great Krystal opening offer and factoring in your trade-in on the Akurate.

Enjoy!!

Best regards,

Peter
Email: peter@cymbiosis.com
Web: http://www.cymbiosis.com
Skype: peteratcymbiosis

Jazz Club

Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by Jazz Club » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:05 pm

Peter,
If one changes to a new Klymax Radikal box do they get the new Motor that comes with it?
Now you have made a complete U turn on the Klymax Radikal being so much better.
Have your thoughts changed on using two Radikal Boxes A or K (One for the motor and one for the Urika) ?
Last edited by Jazz Club on Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

red kite

Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by red kite » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:56 pm

Red Chris wrote:So to continue ........

At this point it made sense to discount the other option that I had been musing about. I've always felt that the Akurate Radikal looked a little incongruous with the rest of my Naim gear and I've admired the look of the Klimax casing - particularly in black. However, the conventional wisdom was that the casing makes no difference and that it would be better to get a Powerline for the Akurate or better still a Sarum Super ARAY power chord - but next up was a Klimax Radikal.

Now I’m going to really struggle to do this justice but it was one of those instantaneous jaw-dropping moments - I literally felt my jaw drop and turned to Peter completely incredulous. I think I then just started smiling inanely and enjoyed listening to the music. There was a palpable sense of a performance in the room that was amazing. What the Klimax Radikal did for the musical enjoyment was simply stunning.

Sometimes when I have been listened to the relative performances of kit I have not really appreciated much difference on the way up, but have found it easier to notice the lesser performance when it’s changed back and we are listening on the way down. That was certainly not the case here - the Klimax effect was far from subtle - a definite WOW or, more accurately, a WTF moment

Next Peter changed the power supply from the Klimax Radikal back to the Akurate Radikal but he also swapped the arm top again - this time to go from Krystal to Kandid. This was going to be interesting.

The Kandid is a great cartridge - but this combination was immediately obvious as simply less good. The difference that the better cartridge brought was nowhere near sufficient to make up for the loss of the Klimax Radikal gave. There was more detail with the Kandid than the Krystal, but what the Klimax brought was much more fundamental to the enjoyment of the music, the sense of performance and simply being in the room with the band.

The Akurate Radikal / Kandid was of course still very good indeed - but there was a significant drop in my enjoyment. I was genuinely very surprised that the difference was as obvious and fundamental. However, we had not actually compared the Krystal to the Kandid directly and I still wanted to do that.

Rather than swap the Aro back to the Krystal using the Akurate Radikal, Peter indicated that he was going to switch back to the Klimax Radikal to demo it with the Kandid first. From the first note - and probably even from the silence that preceded it, we were instantly we were back in the room with the band. The fundamental improvement was back but we also had the benefit of the Kandid - and it was an absolutely brilliant performance.

It was so good that at that point I was a bit scared for the Krystal being put up against it as we were about to swap back, but yet again my expectation was confounded.

Yes of course the Krystal it is not a Kandid but the quality drop was not as large as I had feared and certainly not as fundamental from my perspective as the drop from Klimax/Krystal to Akurate/Kandid. Not really a change in hierarchy but more a reinforcement of the importance of the power supply before the cartridge - but still a bit of a surprise that it wasso clear to hear.

I already new that I needed a new cartridge. I knew now that I was not going to get a Kandid or a new Kleos unless it came with a Klimax Radikal as well - and economics came into play. So in view of its quality it was going to be the Krystal - and in view of Linn's Krystal promotion offer it would have been rude not to go for a new Radikal too 8)
Chris,

thanks for posting these very informative write-ups
It has highlighted another biggie reason why i should beat a path to Leicester very soon [and before any end of this month price increases]
not only RCA-DIN i/c cable shopping but a need to A/B demo the Radikal vs Radikal (Machined)
Looks like it maybe an expensive month for me.

BTW your wenge plinth looks fabulous imo, they always do with an Aro, i'm thinking about a Woodsong but still undecided :g-zip:

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Mr Fixit
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Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by Mr Fixit » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:09 pm

Jazz Club wrote:Peter,
If one changes to a new Klymax Radikal box do they get the new Motor that comes with it?
Now you have made a complete U turn on the Klymax Radikal being so much better.
Have your thoughts changed on using two Radikal Boxes A or K (One for the motor and one for the Urika) ?
Hello Stuart,

Anyone buying a new Klimax Radikal gets a new motor and I fit it as part of the upgrade. Obviously, if it's a second-hand Klimax Radikal, then if the age of the motors is similar and with similar use, then it's a judgement call. Certainly the motors are individually serial numbered with the power supply boxes.

Yes, I re-evaluated my position about two years ago now if I remember correctly and published my findings on both the Linn and Naim forums at that time, as Linn themselves felt there was little sound quality difference between the two originally and this was the same as I found at that time when comparing the two. The only difference was the casework of course as the electronics were the same, so it was a lot of money to pay unless you wanted the Klimax box.

As I mentioned at the time, it seems to have been the introduction of the Dynamik Power Supply that made the difference as no other changes/upgrades have been made to the Radikal, and anyone having this power supply upgrade knows what a big difference it made. However, it took a while to realise that the relative performances of the two Radikals against each other had changed. Indeed it was Pofilter who has experimented with the running of two Akurate Radikals (one for the motor and one for the Urika) who alerted me to check the two again and do the A/B. So, anyone with an Akurate Radikal has an upgrade path to investigate now if they wish? The trade-in allowance on the existing Akurate Radikal makes this a very viable alternative to spending the money elsewhere like on a cartridge as Chris has pointed out.

Currently my thoughts on the two boxes would be no, you are better off buying a single Klimax and as Chris has posted in his fourth post - I certainly couldn't express it any better myself, so I'll just quote again what Chris found and wrote:
By Red Chris: Now I’m going to really struggle to do this justice but it was one of those instantaneous jaw-dropping moments - I literally felt my jaw drop and turned to Peter completely incredulous. I think I then just started smiling inanely and enjoyed listening to the music. There was a palpable sense of a performance in the room that was amazing. What the Klimax Radikal did for the musical enjoyment was simply stunning.
Best regards,

Peter
Email: peter@cymbiosis.com
Web: http://www.cymbiosis.com
Skype: peteratcymbiosis

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Mr Fixit
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Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by Mr Fixit » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:29 pm

red kite wrote:
Chris,

thanks for posting these very informative write-ups
It has highlighted another biggie reason why i should beat a path to Leicester very soon [and before any end of this month price increases]
not only RCA-DIN i/c cable shopping but a need to A/B demo the Radikal vs Radikal (Machined)
Looks like it maybe an expensive month for me.

BTW your wenge plinth looks fabulous imo, they always do with an Aro, i'm thinking about a Woodsong but still undecided :g-zip:
Well, yes there are now a couple of "either or" alternative upgrades to consider now, which is great;

Originally I'd put an additional Klimax LP12 on demo (so I had two Akivas and a Kandid deck) but with Akiva and Chord Sarum interconnects (rather than the Silvers) to show clients that if they wished to upgrade and thought the only route from the Akiva was the Kandid. Many of them going back two years now had Akivas which had plenty of life left, so why not using the Akiva to the full and getting a really good upgrade for similar money as the Kandid upgrade would have cost with the trade-in.

Having a Klimax Radikal available to introduce to a demonstration when appropriate certainly has opened a few people's eyes or rather ears now!

No indication of any price rises, but if I hear of one, I'll be straight on here giving you the heads-up as usual.

Best regards,

Peter
Email: peter@cymbiosis.com
Web: http://www.cymbiosis.com
Skype: peteratcymbiosis

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Mr Onion
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Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by Mr Onion » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:34 pm

Peter. I know its a "listen and see hear" but would a Klimax Radikal be a better upgrade than changing my ITTOK LVIII to an EKOS 2/SE :smt017

Just thinking out loud.
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Mr Fixit
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Re: Krystal Kandid and beyond .......

Post by Mr Fixit » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:36 pm

Mr Onion wrote:Peter. I know its a "listen and see hear" but would a Klimax Radikal be a better upgrade than changing my ITTOK LVIII to an EKOS 2/SE :smt017

Just thinking out loud.
On the evidence of what Chris and I heard... An unequivocal YES!
Email: peter@cymbiosis.com
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