Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

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Coyote Jim
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Coyote Jim » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:55 am

Most welcome Vincent.
As far as a direct comparison on SQ is concerned it's really a personal choice as are most things in the subjective hobby.
We made our choice mostly on the design synergy and in justifying the cost of the three point mount and fly leads this was between the Kleos and Kandid.
The Kleos single layer wasn't in the equation as in the decision making process the Urika is a perfect match for the Kandid with regards gain and loading etc but the Kleos SL is quite a bit lower output than Kandid and I felt that although there might have been some SQ improvements if auditioned I wasn't at all happy about having to Crank up the volume and possibly induce some noise back into the chain. :smt018
Urika II might be a different option with all the available adjustments that are available through Konfig but in my mind it's taking the simplicity and purity out if the equation " no pun intended "
But rest assured in the best demonstration facilities around you're choice will be made so much easier. :smt020
Good luck and do enjoy. 8) :smt023
"Cymbiosis"
Klimax LP12, Linn CD, Linn Amp, Kudos Speakers.
Coyote Jim :wink:

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LD100
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by LD100 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:08 pm

Coyote Jim wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:55 am
Most welcome Vincent.
As far as a direct comparison on SQ is concerned it's really a personal choice as are most things in the subjective hobby.
We made our choice mostly on the design synergy and in justifying the cost of the three point mount and fly leads this was between the Kleos and Kandid.
The Kleos single layer wasn't in the equation as in the decision making process the Urika is a perfect match for the Kandid with regards gain and loading etc but the Kleos SL is quite a bit lower output than Kandid and I felt that although there might have been some SQ improvements if auditioned I wasn't at all happy about having to Crank up the volume and possibly induce some noise back into the chain. :smt018
Urika II might be a different option with all the available adjustments that are available through Konfig but in my mind it's taking the simplicity and purity out if the equation " no pun intended "
But rest assured in the best demonstration facilities around you're choice will be made so much easier. :smt020
Good luck and do enjoy. 8) :smt023



I bought my Lyra Kleos SL a little over 3 years ago and traded in a Lyra Argos for a reasonable discount.

I did not notice any need to turn up the volume control after the change, so if there was a difference in volume with the lower output, it was not noticeable with my step up transformer. So from that aspect, I wouldn't be concerned about the lower output.

I did notice a greater susceptibility to hum which was dealt with by using proper cable management techniques.
Having said that, reduction in mass is always a good thing in this situation but you are asking your phono front end to do more with less.

Based on my experience with Lyra products I feel confident that I would be ecstatic with the sound and build quality of any of their models and certainly including the Kandid. :D

Now, which kidney to sell in a couple of years to trade up to an Etna SL? :shock:
Original 1978 Fluted Afromosia LP12, Ekos 2, Lyra Kleos SL and lots of other stuff from the 70's that still work fine.

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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by vincent » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:37 pm

LD100 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:08 pm
I did not notice any need to turn up the volume control after the change, so if there was a difference in volume with the lower output, it was not noticeable with my step up transformer. So from that aspect, I wouldn't be concerned about the lower output.

I did notice a greater susceptibility to hum which was dealt with by using proper cable management techniques.


Agree that lower output should not be a problem at this quality level, especially with Urika II. (As mentioned at the beginning of this thread, the Kandid seems to be somewhere between the Kleos and Kleos SL in output terms - but presumably is not a 'single layer' coil design?).
LD100 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:08 pm
Now, which kidney to sell in a couple of years to trade up to an Etna SL? :shock:


Well yes, if the Kleos SL is so much better than the Kleos at relatively small cost increase, how could one not want an Etna SL? :smt018

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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Red Chris » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:02 pm

Red Chris wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:44 pm
I have no plans to change my cartridge for at least a year - barring accident :smt030
The Krystal is still fighting fit - but having done the listening I would replace it with a Kleos SL in preference to a Kandid in an Aro. The new question though is will I have an Aro 8)
Currently Cymbiosis LP12 Woodsong Wenge, Klimax Radikal/Chord Sarum T, Keel/A, Khan, Tranquility, Urika/Chord SSA, Aro, sKale, Lyra Kleos SL - Sondek owner since 1982 - the rest is Naim, Chord and Kudos 8)

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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by vincent » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:59 am

Red Chris wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:02 pm
Red Chris wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:44 pm
I have no plans to change my cartridge for at least a year - barring accident :smt030
The Krystal is still fighting fit - but having done the listening I would replace it with a Kleos SL in preference to a Kandid in an Aro. The new question though is will I have an Aro 8)


Ah ha, having just revisited the 'Another Cymbiosis Road Trip' thread, the reasons for people's choices and preferences are becoming clearer.

Many of the advantages of the Kandid in an Ekos SE (referred to by Jim) do not apply in an Aro. And I can see that with the TP Javelin on the horizon, the saving on the Kleos over Kandid might better be spent on one or two of these (two arms with two different carts?) :smt036

Intriguing a prospect as the TPJ is, I have no intention of going down the unipivot route. Given the impracticality of a home-dem of Kleos SL vs Kandid in my Exakt Akubarik Urika II system (I've discussed this with Peter), the only way of making the comparison would be another Cymbiosis road trip which poses logistical difficulties, and might not be ideal for other reasons.

Chris, I noticed from the other thread that the dem at which you preferred the Kleos SL over the Kandid was conducted with a Uphorik, not Urika. If I do this dem, obviously I would prefer to replicate my system a far as possible.

Or I might just have to take the plunge, one way or another :smt017

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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Coyote Jim » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:36 am

Hi Vincent.
Your getting there.
Putting a Kandid in an Aro does involve some very clever adaptation and set up with regards the wiring.
Synergy and minimalist connections all the way with an SE/1
Also in that other thread the volume difference was mentioned.
And increase in gain requirement on a lower level signal always throws up the possibility of inducing " Noise " of many sorts.
Oh and below is the best possible connectivity of a fly lead cart in an Aro or similar.
Credit to Peter "Cymbiosis" for the images below its not a Kandid but the technique is the same.
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
Hope this helps as if I didn't have an SE/1 then Kleos would look like the more palatable choice. 8) :smt023
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"Cymbiosis"
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Red Chris » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:52 pm

Vincent – I agree on the Euphorik in general terms, but it was more than good enough to show the superiority of the Kleos SL and I think the Urika is better anyway. I would however want to listen to the Kleos SL with Urika before actually purchasing.

I do accept that the Kandid is probably at a disadvantage in the Aro due to the flying lead arrangements, but it is what it is. I prefer the Aro /Aro Keel to the Ekos SE / Keel by a considerable margin, so the Aro stays - unless the Javelin seduces me.

The situation is reversed with the Linn Krystal as I believe it better suits the Aro anyway, and that is something that factored into my preference for the Klimax Radikal and Krystal over the Akurate Radikal and Kandid 8)
Last edited by Red Chris on Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Currently Cymbiosis LP12 Woodsong Wenge, Klimax Radikal/Chord Sarum T, Keel/A, Khan, Tranquility, Urika/Chord SSA, Aro, sKale, Lyra Kleos SL - Sondek owner since 1982 - the rest is Naim, Chord and Kudos 8)

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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Coyote Jim » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:15 pm

It's nice chat were having a very honest and consistent chat about these variables.
Had I not had an SE/1 then the first choice would have been one of the Kleos Cartridges.
But having the SE/1 then everything about the Kandid seemed right.
The Krystal is a super Cartridge when you get a good one but twice I've been very unlucky as the super support of my dealer does indeed testify I'm now very happy with my lot " Unreserved Thanks Peter :wink: "
The Krystal or pinned type cart makes lots of sense for those with fixed wiring and I've no doubt that the Klimax Radikal and the Krystal combination does indeed punch above its weight but the Klimax Radikal and Kandid is a real game changer. :shock: 8) :smt023
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Coyote Jim » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:56 pm

Just having a look round and it seems Lyra are for the US market at least steering customers towards non SL versions due to preamp compatibility. :roll:
who knows. :smt017
"Cymbiosis"
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Re: Linn Kandid vs Lyra Kleos SL

Post by Red Chris » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:38 pm

Lyra’s own website makes it clear that your preamp needs to be good / quiet enough - but when it is the benefits of the SL are apparent.
Currently Cymbiosis LP12 Woodsong Wenge, Klimax Radikal/Chord Sarum T, Keel/A, Khan, Tranquility, Urika/Chord SSA, Aro, sKale, Lyra Kleos SL - Sondek owner since 1982 - the rest is Naim, Chord and Kudos 8)

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