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Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

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Mouldy Old Dough
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Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

I've had my Evo for a couple of years now, and I've upgraded the sub platter, platter, the PSU, the feet and the cables. I've also upgraded the stylus from the Ortofon 2M Red to the Blue, which was an easy swap. I'm now considering going to the 2M Bronze or Black, and these require changing the full cartridge which I've never done before. My main question is about whether it is worth going to the Black, since it costs almost as much as the table itself. I won't get the money back on the upgrades if I sold the table, which is why I am thinking of upgrading the cartridge. The Bronze seems to be similar to the Blue but with a good bit of warmth, and the Black is more analytical.

Is it worth putting a £500 cartridge on a £600 table? I know there is the law of diminishing returns.
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Tendaberry
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Tendaberry »

I would really consider getting a better turntable. There's a nice Winter Promotion from Linn :D You'll get at least GBP 750,- for your Project...
Or if that's too much, how about this one? https://www.rega.co.uk/news/item/planar-3-rs-edition
A great package price at GBP 999,-
Last edited by Tendaberry on Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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akamatsu
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by akamatsu »

More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.
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Coyote Jim
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Coyote Jim »

Far more to benefit from going source first.
Putting a high end cart on a less than able deck will be false economy.
I know it’s a lump of money but the Linn trade in deal is worth more than you think.
Bearing etc is far more up the hierarchy than a cartridge.
If finances are so tight then improving your existing foundation would be money better spent.
:smt023
Turntable - Linn LP12, Karousel, Keel, Ekos SE/1, Kandid, K-Radikal 2, Urika.
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Dan Steel
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Dan Steel »

Image

Of the knowalls :smt023
Turntable - Linn LP12, Karousel, Keel, Ekos SE/1, Kandid, K-Radikal, Urika.
Amplifier - Naim Supernait 3
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Turntable Mat - Linn, Collaro Audio (Red & Black)
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Mouldy Old Dough
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

akamatsu wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:10 pm More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.
I already have it on an IsoAcoustics Zazen platform.
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akamatsu
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by akamatsu »

Mouldy Old Dough wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:07 pm
akamatsu wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:10 pm More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.
I already have it on an IsoAcoustics Zazen platform.
Not familiar with that one. I was thinking of a lightweight, rigid, and stable stand similar to NOKTable or AudioTech.
Linn Klimax LP12, Linn NG Klimax DSM hub (Utopik), Linn 360s

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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

Tendaberry wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:07 pm I would really consider getting a better turntable. There's a nice Winter Promotion from Linn :D You'll get at least GBP 750,- for your Project...
Or if that's too much, how about this one? https://www.rega.co.uk/news/item/planar-3-rs-edition
A great package price at GBP 999,-
Thanks for that, but I have no intentions of spending £3k on a turntable just now. As much as I would like to. :D

That Rega looks nice, although I would lose too much on what I have spent already. I did consider a Rega when I bought the Project, and I bought my daughter a P2 when she showed an interest.
Mouldy Old Dough
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

akamatsu wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:12 pm
Mouldy Old Dough wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:07 pm
akamatsu wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:10 pm More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.
I already have it on an IsoAcoustics Zazen platform.
Not familiar with that one. I was thinking of a lightweight, rigid, and stable stand similar to NOKTable or AudioTech.
Ah, my apologies!

This is the zaZen isolation platform...

Image

And my kit is all on a Quadraspire table.
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Dan Steel
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Dan Steel »

Mouldy Old Dough wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:24 am
akamatsu wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:12 pm
Mouldy Old Dough wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:07 pm
akamatsu wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:10 pm More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.
I already have it on an IsoAcoustics Zazen platform.
Not familiar with that one. I was thinking of a lightweight, rigid, and stable stand similar to NOKTable or AudioTech.
Ah, my apologies!

This is the zaZen isolation platform...

Image

And my kit is all on a Quadraspire table.
Nice :smt023
Turntable - Linn LP12, Karousel, Keel, Ekos SE/1, Kandid, K-Radikal, Urika.
Amplifier - Naim Supernait 3
CD Player - Naim CD5si
Speakers - Kudos X3
Turntable Mat - Linn, Collaro Audio (Red & Black)
Cables - Kudos KS-1 Speaker Cable, Linn Silver Interconnects
Support - DIY Solid Oak Rack
Headphones - Focal Elegia, AKG 701
Mouldy Old Dough
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

Dan Steel wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:44 am Nice :smt023
:smt023
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Wenge1
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Wenge1 »

Coyote Jim wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:39 pm Putting a high end cart on a less than able deck will be false economy.
:smt023
.
This is very true and I doubt putting a 2M Black on your current turntable and arm will allow you to get the best out of a 2M Black. If you have done everything else that can be done with your current deck then a 'Bronze' would be a better bang for your buck than a Black IMHO.

If getting a more accomplished turntable/arm package is not right for you currently then try a Bronze but the limitations I mentioned above would still come into play. But most of all, don't forget to enjoy what you have ......... :smt023
LP12 - Klimax Radikal 2/Urika, Harban Plinth, Karousel, Keel, Karmen, Ekos SE, Skale, Lyra Atlas
CD Players - Roksan Caspian M2 CD Player, dCS Puccini CD Player + Scarlatti Master Clock
Amp - Chord Ultima Integrated
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.
Mouldy Old Dough
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

Wenge1 wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 11:47 am
Coyote Jim wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:39 pm Putting a high end cart on a less than able deck will be false economy.
:smt023
.
This is very true and I doubt putting a 2M Black on your current turntable and arm will allow you to get the best out of a 2M Black. If you have done everything else that can be done with your current deck then a 'Bronze' would be a better bang for your buck than a Black IMHO.

If getting a more accomplished turntable/arm package is not right for you currently then try a Bronze but the limitations I mentioned above would still come into play. But most of all, don't forget to enjoy what you have ......... :smt023
Bronze was my initial thought, but the price difference isn't that great between them compared to going Bronze then upgrading to a Black stylus later on. The Black does have a reputation of a lot of surface noise, I have read.

I think I will lower my sights to a Bronze.

Now then, about that "changing a cartridge" pallaver... :D
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Wenge1
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Wenge1 »

Mouldy Old Dough wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 12:22 pm
Wenge1 wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 11:47 am
Coyote Jim wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2024 5:39 pm Putting a high end cart on a less than able deck will be false economy.
:smt023
.
This is very true and I doubt putting a 2M Black on your current turntable and arm will allow you to get the best out of a 2M Black. If you have done everything else that can be done with your current deck then a 'Bronze' would be a better bang for your buck than a Black IMHO.

If getting a more accomplished turntable/arm package is not right for you currently then try a Bronze but the limitations I mentioned above would still come into play. But most of all, don't forget to enjoy what you have ......... :smt023
Bronze was my initial thought, but the price difference isn't that great between them compared to going Bronze then upgrading to a Black stylus later on. The Black does have a reputation of a lot of surface noise, I have read.

I think I will lower my sights to a Bronze.

Now then, about that "changing a cartridge" pallaver... :D
.
The difference between the two is what - circa an extra £150. I'm not convinced that you would get that much of an improvement. But it's your money and if you want to go for it, go for it. Can't comment on the possible 'surface noise' situation but it seems a bit weird to me.
LP12 - Klimax Radikal 2/Urika, Harban Plinth, Karousel, Keel, Karmen, Ekos SE, Skale, Lyra Atlas
CD Players - Roksan Caspian M2 CD Player, dCS Puccini CD Player + Scarlatti Master Clock
Amp - Chord Ultima Integrated
Speakers - Kudos S20 A's in Santos Rosewood
Cables - Linn Silver RCA & K200 speaker cable
.
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Coyote Jim
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Coyote Jim »

There comes a point when putting items of differing compliance can be counteractive and even destructive.
I’ve heard many times a super cartridge on a not so super deck sounds worse than a cheaper cart on the same deck.
There is always diminishing returns at certain levels and there is the over the cliff syndrome when it goes backwards.
There is hierarchy for a reason. :wink:
Turntable - Linn LP12, Karousel, Keel, Ekos SE/1, Kandid, K-Radikal 2, Urika.
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mr Onion »

One VERY important thing to note is the TT has a steel platter so you can not use a Moving Coil Cartridge (I know you are not thinking of that right now but its important to remember for the future)


TBH unless you NEED to replace your stylus I would keep that money towards a better TT which would let your existing cartridge work and sound a whole lot better
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Mouldy Old Dough
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

Wenge1 wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 12:40 pm The difference between the two is what - circa an extra £150. I'm not convinced that you would get that much of an improvement. But it's your money and if you want to go for it, go for it. Can't comment on the possible 'surface noise' situation but it seems a bit weird to me.
It was the Bronze I was initially looking at, and it's not much of an increase to the Black. It's just a small upgrade from the Blue, but the stress of changing the cartridge might just put me off it altogether :D

I'm not looking to invest fortunes in a better turntable just now.
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

Mr Onion wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:39 pm One VERY important thing to note is the TT has a steel platter so you can not use a Moving Coil Cartridge (I know you are not thinking of that right now but its important to remember for the future)


TBH unless you NEED to replace your stylus I would keep that money towards a better TT which would let your existing cartridge work and sound a whole lot better
Noted! :smt023
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by akamatsu »

I think the beauty of this type of turntable is that it only works well with affordable MM cartridges for which the stylus can be changed in a matter of one minute for very little money.
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

akamatsu wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 4:40 pm I think the beauty of this type of turntable is that it only works well with affordable MM cartridges for which the stylus can be changed in a matter of one minute for very little money.
As it was to go from the Red to the Blue.
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by akamatsu »

Mouldy Old Dough wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 4:42 pm
akamatsu wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 4:40 pm I think the beauty of this type of turntable is that it only works well with affordable MM cartridges for which the stylus can be changed in a matter of one minute for very little money.
As it was to go from the Red to the Blue.
I just refreshed my memory of the Ortofon lineup. I see what you are talking about now. I envy you. :D
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Re: Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

Post by Mouldy Old Dough »

akamatsu wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 5:13 pm I just refreshed my memory of the Ortofon lineup. I see what you are talking about now. I envy you. :D
Unfortunately, it's only from Red to Blue and Bronze to Black that are interchangeable. Well, you can swap a Bronze from a Red, but you don't get the full improvement.

I know the Evo is just a starter table, but it's always good to get advice from you more experienced guys.
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