Upgrading the cartridge in a Project DC Evo turntable?

[Mouldy Old Dough]

I've had my Evo for a couple of years now, and I've upgraded the sub platter, platter, the PSU, the feet and the cables. I've also upgraded the stylus from the Ortofon 2M Red to the Blue, which was an easy swap. I'm now considering going to the 2M Bronze or Black, and these require changing the full cartridge which I've never done before. My main question is about whether it is worth going to the Black, since it costs almost as much as the table itself. I won't get the money back on the upgrades if I sold the table, which is why I am thinking of upgrading the cartridge. The Bronze seems to be similar to the Blue but with a good bit of warmth, and the Black is more analytical.

Is it worth putting a £500 cartridge on a £600 table? I know there is the law of diminishing returns.

[Tendaberry]

I would really consider getting a better turntable. There's a nice Winter Promotion from Linn You'll get at least GBP 750,- for your Project...
Or if that's too much, how about this one? https://www.rega.co.uk/news/item/planar-3-rs-edition
A great package price at GBP 999,-

[akamatsu]

More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.

[Coyote Jim]

Far more to benefit from going source first.
Putting a high end cart on a less than able deck will be false economy.
I know it’s a lump of money but the Linn trade in deal is worth more than you think.
Bearing etc is far more up the hierarchy than a cartridge.
If finances are so tight then improving your existing foundation would be money better spent.

[Dan Steel]

Of the knowalls

[Mouldy Old Dough]

More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.

I already have it on an IsoAcoustics Zazen platform.

[akamatsu]

More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.

I already have it on an IsoAcoustics Zazen platform.

Not familiar with that one. I was thinking of a lightweight, rigid, and stable stand similar to NOKTable or AudioTech.

[Mouldy Old Dough]

I would really consider getting a better turntable. There's a nice Winter Promotion from Linn You'll get at least GBP 750,- for your Project...
Or if that's too much, how about this one? https://www.rega.co.uk/news/item/planar-3-rs-edition
A great package price at GBP 999,-

Thanks for that, but I have no intentions of spending £3k on a turntable just now. As much as I would like to.

That Rega looks nice, although I would lose too much on what I have spent already. I did consider a Rega when I bought the Project, and I bought my daughter a P2 when she showed an interest.

[Mouldy Old Dough]

More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.

I already have it on an IsoAcoustics Zazen platform.

Not familiar with that one. I was thinking of a lightweight, rigid, and stable stand similar to NOKTable or AudioTech.

Ah, my apologies!

This is the zaZen isolation platform...



And my kit is all on a Quadraspire table.

[Dan Steel]

More relevant to what you are proposing, there is the hierarchy. The turntable/tonearm must be able to minimize the relative movement between record surface and cartridge body or else the additional performance of a better cartridge won't be realized. So there would be a limit to upgrading the cartridge on an entry level turntable. A dedicated turntable stand, if not already used, would be a better upgrade in my opinion.

I already have it on an IsoAcoustics Zazen platform.

Not familiar with that one. I was thinking of a lightweight, rigid, and stable stand similar to NOKTable or AudioTech.

Ah, my apologies!

This is the zaZen isolation platform...



And my kit is all on a Quadraspire table.

Nice

[Mouldy Old Dough]

Nice

[Wenge1]

Putting a high end cart on a less than able deck will be false economy.

.
This is very true and I doubt putting a 2M Black on your current turntable and arm will allow you to get the best out of a 2M Black. If you have done everything else that can be done with your current deck then a 'Bronze' would be a better bang for your buck than a Black IMHO.

If getting a more accomplished turntable/arm package is not right for you currently then try a Bronze but the limitations I mentioned above would still come into play. But most of all, don't forget to enjoy what you have .........

[Mouldy Old Dough]

Putting a high end cart on a less than able deck will be false economy.

.
This is very true and I doubt putting a 2M Black on your current turntable and arm will allow you to get the best out of a 2M Black. If you have done everything else that can be done with your current deck then a 'Bronze' would be a better bang for your buck than a Black IMHO.

If getting a more accomplished turntable/arm package is not right for you currently then try a Bronze but the limitations I mentioned above would still come into play. But most of all, don't forget to enjoy what you have .........

Bronze was my initial thought, but the price difference isn't that great between them compared to going Bronze then upgrading to a Black stylus later on. The Black does have a reputation of a lot of surface noise, I have read.

I think I will lower my sights to a Bronze.

Now then, about that "changing a cartridge" pallaver...

[Wenge1]

Putting a high end cart on a less than able deck will be false economy.

.
This is very true and I doubt putting a 2M Black on your current turntable and arm will allow you to get the best out of a 2M Black. If you have done everything else that can be done with your current deck then a 'Bronze' would be a better bang for your buck than a Black IMHO.

If getting a more accomplished turntable/arm package is not right for you currently then try a Bronze but the limitations I mentioned above would still come into play. But most of all, don't forget to enjoy what you have .........

Bronze was my initial thought, but the price difference isn't that great between them compared to going Bronze then upgrading to a Black stylus later on. The Black does have a reputation of a lot of surface noise, I have read.

I think I will lower my sights to a Bronze.

Now then, about that "changing a cartridge" pallaver...

.
The difference between the two is what - circa an extra £150. I'm not convinced that you would get that much of an improvement. But it's your money and if you want to go for it, go for it. Can't comment on the possible 'surface noise' situation but it seems a bit weird to me.

[Coyote Jim]

There comes a point when putting items of differing compliance can be counteractive and even destructive.
I’ve heard many times a super cartridge on a not so super deck sounds worse than a cheaper cart on the same deck.
There is always diminishing returns at certain levels and there is the over the cliff syndrome when it goes backwards.
There is hierarchy for a reason.

[Mr Onion]

One VERY important thing to note is the TT has a steel platter so you can not use a Moving Coil Cartridge (I know you are not thinking of that right now but its important to remember for the future)


TBH unless you NEED to replace your stylus I would keep that money towards a better TT which would let your existing cartridge work and sound a whole lot better

[Mouldy Old Dough]

The difference between the two is what - circa an extra £150. I'm not convinced that you would get that much of an improvement. But it's your money and if you want to go for it, go for it. Can't comment on the possible 'surface noise' situation but it seems a bit weird to me.

It was the Bronze I was initially looking at, and it's not much of an increase to the Black. It's just a small upgrade from the Blue, but the stress of changing the cartridge might just put me off it altogether

I'm not looking to invest fortunes in a better turntable just now.

[Mouldy Old Dough]

One VERY important thing to note is the TT has a steel platter so you can not use a Moving Coil Cartridge (I know you are not thinking of that right now but its important to remember for the future)


TBH unless you NEED to replace your stylus I would keep that money towards a better TT which would let your existing cartridge work and sound a whole lot better

Noted!

[akamatsu]

I think the beauty of this type of turntable is that it only works well with affordable MM cartridges for which the stylus can be changed in a matter of one minute for very little money.

[Mouldy Old Dough]

I think the beauty of this type of turntable is that it only works well with affordable MM cartridges for which the stylus can be changed in a matter of one minute for very little money.

As it was to go from the Red to the Blue.

[akamatsu]

I think the beauty of this type of turntable is that it only works well with affordable MM cartridges for which the stylus can be changed in a matter of one minute for very little money.

As it was to go from the Red to the Blue.

I just refreshed my memory of the Ortofon lineup. I see what you are talking about now. I envy you.

[Mouldy Old Dough]

I just refreshed my memory of the Ortofon lineup. I see what you are talking about now. I envy you.

Unfortunately, it's only from Red to Blue and Bronze to Black that are interchangeable. Well, you can swap a Bronze from a Red, but you don't get the full improvement.

I know the Evo is just a starter table, but it's always good to get advice from you more experienced guys.