LINN Krystal cleaning advice

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Cymbiosis
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LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Cymbiosis »

Good evening.

I make this post as a strong advisory notice to all Linn Krystal owners as was suggested to me by Linn Service earlier today.

Following two Krystal cantilever failures which it is likely have been as the result of using Lyra SPT despite careful adherence to Lyra's advice for use. Please stop using any wet cleaning system with this cartridge immediately. It is clear from photographs taken that the cantilevers corroded and subsequently failed during play. Both Krystals were more than 12 months old.

Linn's advice on stylus cleaning remains that we should use the Green Paper.

Any Krystal owner wishing to have some Green Paper if you are not using it already is welcome to contact me for supply FOC. Or their own retailer who will happily supply I'm sure.

Doubtless discussions will be ongoing here and please spread the word.

Best wishes,

Peter
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evil_C
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by evil_C »

Hello Peter,

I would be interested to know what further investigations are being performed by Linn to understand how and why these two cantilevers have failed.

Regarding the green abrasive paper, does Linn provide advice on how to use it? The thought of moving the edge of an abrasive sheet close to a narrow walled aluminium tube must surely pose as much a risk as corrosion caused by the use of wet cleaning systems.

Personally I feel more comfortable using the Audio Technica AT637 dry than using green abrasive paper. Is this considered appropriate by Linn?

Thanks and regards,
Clive
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apye
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by apye »

evil_C wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:43 pm Hello Peter,

I would be interested to know what further investigations are being performed by Linn to understand how and why these two cantilevers have failed.

Regarding the green abrasive paper, does Linn provide advice on how to use it? The thought of moving the edge of an abrasive sheet close to a narrow walled aluminium tube must surely pose as much a risk as corrosion caused by the use of wet cleaning systems.

Personally I feel more comfortable using the Audio Technica AT637 dry than using green abrasive paper. Is this considered appropriate by Linn?

Thanks and regards,
Clive


Hi Clive, can I ask if you have been using STP on your Krystal and if so for how long?

Personally I have used STP on mine from day one and it is just over a year old (Sept16) as it worked great on my XX2.

It would be really interesting to find out how many people have been using SPT on their Krystal and for how long.
Then how many have had the cantilever fail (or not!)

Thanks,
Andy.
Cymbiosis LP12 / Ekos SE/1 / Kandid / KRadikal/2 / Keel / Karousel, TP Vulkan, Allnic H1202 Phono, Naim CD5X, Vitus RI-101 Mk2 on Walnut Isoblue, Tellurium Q Black cables into Audiovector M3 Avantgarde Arreté Speakers, Audio Desk Systeme RCM.
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evil_C
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by evil_C »

Yes I have been using Lyra SPT on my Krystal since new. Although I haven't checked the receipt, I suspect it's over a year old. Mine is serial number 0314. It is quite easy to see when there is a build up of debris on the stylus which cleans off quite effectively with the brush dampened with SPT. I have, I should point out, always used it strictly in accordance with the instructions.

I do not know how to use the abrasive paper to clean the stylus without risk of the edge catching the cantilever (it must be a very delicate operation, after all), so I'd be reluctant to use it. I guess from now I'll just use the AT637 dry, but I don't think it's as effective as SPT.

Although I've never tested it, I would hope that if it failed, then the household insurance should cover the replacement cost as accidental damage, just as it should if the cantilever were caught on a baggy jumper sleeve.
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Derosa »

Hi Andy
Here is what mine looked like after a very script adherence to the instructions gently touching the brush to the diamond when damp
Can it really just be the fluid or is it somrthing else ?? :smt017
Image
Obviously investigation are still ongoing because peter refused to let this be swept aside
Will keep you posted
Regards
Tony
Clearaudio concept mc with MCRU power supply
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Wenge1
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Wenge1 »

Derosa wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:28 am Hi Andy
Here is what mine looked like after a very script adherence to the instructions gently touching the brush to the diamond when damp
Can it really just be the fluid or is it somrthing else ?? :smt017
Image
Obviously investigation are still ongoing because peter refused to let this be swept aside
Will keep you posted
Regards
Tony

Mine also had that 'look'
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Dan Steel
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Dan Steel »

Wenge1 wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:31 am
Derosa wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:28 am Hi Andy
Here is what mine looked like after a very script adherence to the instructions gently touching the brush to the diamond when damp
Can it really just be the fluid or is it somrthing else ?? :smt017
Image
Obviously investigation are still ongoing because peter refused to let this be swept aside
Will keep you posted
Regards
Tony

Mine also had that 'look'

Adam,
Prince had the look :roll:
Image
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Coyote Jim
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Coyote Jim »

Derosa wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:28 am Hi Andy
Here is what mine looked like after a very script adherence to the instructions gently touching the brush to the diamond when damp
Can it really just be the fluid or is it somrthing else ?? :smt017
Image
Obviously investigation are still ongoing because peter refused to let this be swept aside
Will keep you posted
Regards
Tony

That looks very suspicious to be blaming the cleaning fluid its rather far up to be used in accordance with instructions IMO.
Peter is a great dealer for trying to get the best he can for his clients after all his reputation is paramount and has had invaluable input regarding upgrades to further develop equipment.
" Keel for Aro " and the Ekos SE/1 headshell access all in the name of keeping the vinyl enthusiast happy and accommodated.
Many other projects aside but has a great ear for the client requirements.
Fine line to tread. 8) :smt023
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Steven
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Steven »

Certainly a fine line to tread but Linn must also realise that customers have choice and can elect to spend their hard earned money anywhere they choose.

The Krystal is indeed a fine cartridge but there are also many others in that price band that are worthy of owning.

Poor press on that cartridge and/or the customer service could actually impact on the dealer sales of the Akurate LP12 !!!

A fine line indeed ......
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Derosa »

“That looks very suspicious to be blaming the cleaning fluid its rather far up to be used in accordance with instructions IMO.”
Check out what looks to me like a whole starting in the middle of the cantilever :shock: although I am of course no expert I could be completely wrong :oops:
Clearaudio concept mc with MCRU power supply
Naim stageline S with olive hicap
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then into Arcam D33FMJ DAC
Wiim pro into Arcam dac
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Mr Onion
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Mr Onion »

In my totally un expert opinion that looks like a fracture due to brittle metal.
James


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evil_C
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by evil_C »

Derosa wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:28 am Hi Andy
Here is what mine looked like after a very script adherence to the instructions gently touching the brush to the diamond when damp
Can it really just be the fluid or is it somrthing else ?? :smt017
Image
Obviously investigation are still ongoing because peter refused to let this be swept aside
Will keep you posted
Regards
Tony

Tony,
What is the distance of the fracture from where the cantilever emerges from the cartridge body? Is the flat part I see at the top of the picture actually the end of the cantilever?

The same question to Adam. Do you have a similarly magnified photograph of your failed cantilever? I'd like to be able to compare the two. I would also like to ask a metallurgist I know to have a look at the photographs.
Thanks,
Clive
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evil_C
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by evil_C »

I have just checked the receipt for my Krystal cartridge and was surprised to find that I had actually purchased it in January 2016, so it's approaching two (2) years old. Typically I have been using Lyra SPT after each playing session.
Derosa
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Derosa »

Hi Clive
the top of the picture is where the stylus SHOULD be
You can just make out the cartridge body at the bottom right of the photo
(Ps I only used spt at the most 30 times and it had 300 hours on it according to my diary )
Regards
Tony
Clearaudio concept mc with MCRU power supply
Naim stageline S with olive hicap
Rega Saturn CD as transport into Theta TLC
then into Arcam D33FMJ DAC
Wiim pro into Arcam dac
Stax L700 006ts Kimik headphones
Naim Supernait2 naim hi cap DR
Neat Momentum 3i
all supported by mana clamps and racks :smt020
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Derosa »

Hopefully This picture helps you more
Image
Clearaudio concept mc with MCRU power supply
Naim stageline S with olive hicap
Rega Saturn CD as transport into Theta TLC
then into Arcam D33FMJ DAC
Wiim pro into Arcam dac
Stax L700 006ts Kimik headphones
Naim Supernait2 naim hi cap DR
Neat Momentum 3i
all supported by mana clamps and racks :smt020
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Coyote Jim
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Coyote Jim »

image.jpeg
This at nearly £40 :smt005
Good luck. 8) :smt023
If only everyone lived in Scotland where the water is soft and Free. :p
I sense an opportunity. :roll:
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Red Chris
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Red Chris »

My SPT came free my Lyra Kleos :wink:
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Coyote Jim »

Having been a retailer for a number of years items that come free are generally included in the price. :roll:
Retail is not a charity. :smt018
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Mr Onion
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Mr Onion »

Derosa wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:40 pm Hopefully This picture helps you more
Image



Looks like a chewed up drinking straw :shock:
James


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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Coyote Jim »

Mr Onion wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:25 pm
Derosa wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:40 pm Hopefully This picture helps you more
Image



Looks like a chewed up drinking straw :shock:

Doesn't look like the super cleaning formula has done much either. :shock: :oops:
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Derosa »

That’s because I only used it on the diamond as instructed :smt023
Clearaudio concept mc with MCRU power supply
Naim stageline S with olive hicap
Rega Saturn CD as transport into Theta TLC
then into Arcam D33FMJ DAC
Wiim pro into Arcam dac
Stax L700 006ts Kimik headphones
Naim Supernait2 naim hi cap DR
Neat Momentum 3i
all supported by mana clamps and racks :smt020
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Coyote Jim »

Derosa wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:36 pm That’s because I only used it on the diamond as instructed :smt023

That's why I said it. 8) :smt023
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by apye »

evil_C wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:44 am Yes I have been using Lyra SPT on my Krystal since new. Although I haven't checked the receipt, I suspect it's over a year old. Mine is serial number 0314. It is quite easy to see when there is a build up of debris on the stylus which cleans off quite effectively with the brush dampened with SPT. I have, I should point out, always used it strictly in accordance with the instructions.

I do not know how to use the abrasive paper to clean the stylus without risk of the edge catching the cantilever (it must be a very delicate operation, after all), so I'd be reluctant to use it. I guess from now I'll just use the AT637 dry, but I don't think it's as effective as SPT.

Although I've never tested it, I would hope that if it failed, then the household insurance should cover the replacement cost as accidental damage, just as it should if the cantilever were caught on a baggy jumper sleeve.


Thanks for the reply Clive.

Sounds like yours is as old as mine, just over a year.
I am wondering if we have been using SPT from day one whether the damage is already done and reverting to a dry cleaning method won't make much difference? :?
Maybe only prolong it? :smt017
Cymbiosis LP12 / Ekos SE/1 / Kandid / KRadikal/2 / Keel / Karousel, TP Vulkan, Allnic H1202 Phono, Naim CD5X, Vitus RI-101 Mk2 on Walnut Isoblue, Tellurium Q Black cables into Audiovector M3 Avantgarde Arreté Speakers, Audio Desk Systeme RCM.
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by apye »

evil_C wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:34 pm I have just checked the receipt for my Krystal cartridge and was surprised to find that I had actually purchased it in January 2016, so it's approaching two (2) years old. Typically I have been using Lyra SPT after each playing session.


Hi Clive,

Only saw this post after replying to your previous post.
Well your Krystal seems to be holding up very well considering you have been using SPT on it for so Long!! :shock:
Maybe ths SPT isn't causing the cantilever to shear after all. :| :smt009 :smt017 xss07
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Cymbiosis
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Re: LINN Krystal cleaning advice

Post by Cymbiosis »

Derosa wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:19 pm “That looks very suspicious to be blaming the cleaning fluid its rather far up to be used in accordance with instructions IMO.”


Exactly and this thread was extracted by the Mods and re-named. The issue as I have said I believe is/was with fluid cleaners on these cantilevers as far as we can tell at this stage.


More research needs to take place first.

Peter
Last edited by Mr Onion on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited in light of new topic title
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